The ‘Will and Grace’ Myth—Do Most Gay Men Secretly Hate Women?

 

Will and Grace Myth Do Most Gay Men Secretly Hate Women

Recently, there have been numerous essays going around social media about a very taboo topic. In fact, the subject is so sensitive that I was surprised to see the articles come floating around my Facebook feed. It’s a question that will undoubtedly create a lot of controversy, but despite its inflammatory nature, the time has finally come to ask it out loud: do most gay men secretly hate women? Is the Will and Grace-inspired social construct of gay male/straight, gay or bi female BFFs just a myth?

I started thinking about this topic about two years ago, when I complained to a family member that I had been to a drag show and that the male performer came around into the audience, snuck up behind me and, without my consent, squeezed my breast so hard it brought immediate tears to my eyes. “Well,” said my relative, who is himself a cross dresser and as such spends most of his time surrounded by gay men, “that’s because gay men secretly hate women.”

Shocked, I stared at my relative, blinked a couple of times and said “whaaaaaat?” He continued: “oh yeah. It’s a big secret that no one talks about. Gay men hate women and that whole thing they do with touching women is a way they can abuse women and work out their feelings of hatred. They get away with it because they’re gay, but really it’s a way for them to commit assault on women.”

“But that seems to run counter to how gay male/female relationships are perceived by society,” I said out loud; but it makes perfect sense with regard to how I’ve been treated over the years, I thought silently.

“Believe me,” my relative continued, “you should hear how they talk about women when only men are around. I’ve heard them so I know for a fact that they despise women and everything about females. Some of them can’t stand to be around other gay men who even act feminine.”

Stunned and confused, I said “but this can’t be true for all gay men. That’s a stereotype.” My relative replied, “no, they all hate women. All of them.”

While that particular statement is pretty damning and almost certainly impossible, the conversation set in motion wheels that haven’t stopped turning since. I began reflecting back on my own relationships with my gay male “best friends” over the years and reviewing how each relationship eventually collapsed. Comparing those relationships to ones I have and still have with my female friends, a drastic difference began to take shape.

I’d been “best friends” with at least four gay men, and casual friends with countless others. Of the four men with whom I had been “BFFs,” all of them made me cry so often with their insults, put-downs and general nastiness that I am now very relieved I have distanced myself from them for good. In contrast, the female friends I have still continue to be in my life in a deeply meaningful way, and I have never felt verbally abused or physically assaulted by any of them.

In an essay entitled The Myth of the Fag Hag and Dirty Secrets of the Gay Male Subculture author Rohin Guha asserts that gay male culture breeds misogyny partly because there are very few women around at the places where gay men congregate. Guha points out that the behaviors of assault and verbal abuse tend to flourish in gay male culture because it is reinforced by gay men who learn from each other that it is o.k., even desirable, to be misogynistic.

He says that “gay men had allowed themselves to fall into a lazy and inexcusable rut of objectifying, demeaning, and dismissing women.” That may be true, but certainly there are plenty of straight men who fall into that same rut; and while the idyllic Will and Grace BFF relationship might be more of a myth than what happens in reality most of the time, the same could be said of any TV relationship. How many people have a huge group of magical best friends that wants to hang out together all the time like on the show Friends? TV should never be looked at as a realistic model of how life works, and maybe some of the women who are disillusioned with their failed relationships with their gay male BBFs might  have been basing their expectations of the relationship on something rather unrealistic. After all, we don’t live in a post-sexist society.

There is also the question of whether certain types of people are attracted to each other as friends, period. It seems that socially awkward, insecure, unhappy gay men were historically the kind that always gravitated toward me and wanted to be my BFF. Now that I’ve learned to keep those kinds of people–of all orientations–at arm’s length, I’m much happier and more at peace.

I have several gay male friends who are kind, loving, and who would bend over backward for their female and male friends alike, so my relative was very likely wrong in saying “all” gay men hate women. Do some gay men secretly hate women? Perhaps, but it’s doubtful that their misogyny occurs in any greater proportion than it does in the straight male population. Just as some straight women should examine why they always seem to pick women-hating misogynists as romantic partners, perhaps it’s time that all women who have suffered a failed friendship with a gay man start asking themselves why they always seem to pick socially inappropriate, misogynistic, miserable gay male friends as BFFS.

American society is still very misogynistic, and there are men in both straight and gay male culture who hate women. Gay men who hate women seem to take it out most often in verbal assault while straight men tend to take it out physically. Both are very hurtful and destructive. Thus, maybe the discussion should not be “do most gay men secretly hate women?” but “how can we continue to eradicate misogyny in our culture overall as well as select healthier people with whom to have close relationships?”

By: Rebecca Savastio

Sources:

The Advocate

Jezebel

XO Jane

18 Responses to "The ‘Will and Grace’ Myth—Do Most Gay Men Secretly Hate Women?"

  1. aquaseanotes   October 20, 2016 at 5:04 pm

    this article is very true. i am female and have noticed over the years that gay men and closeted gay men are attracted to being my friend, or rather pretending to be my friend, to get things out of me, while continuing their secret gay relationships elsewhere. i have never met a gay man who truly cares about the women in his life, aside from maybe his mother. i have had gay male friends of mine be my “friend” for years and then suddenly ditch me when I told them “no” for something they thought I “owed” them. gay men have absolutely no manners, social grace, or consideration for other human beings period. when groups of gay men hang out together they only reinforce this because they can drop the polite facade that they would otherwise use in “normal” society of using manners, having consideration for other people, etc. gay men are the most selfish type of man

    gay men do not “love” women by trying to act like women. that’s called imitation, but it’s not love. they do not love or respect actual, real women. they steal the outer looks and behaviors of women and use them as a means to attract men. otherwise, they don’t give a damn about women.

    look at the comment up above mine and see the gay man who says that gay men are smarter than straight men, because straight men are so stupid that they “allow” women to manipulate them with their vaginas. Ridiculous. as if the only intelligent man is the one who is smarter than a woman. if you don’t see how that is misogynistic, you are very lost in life.

    Reply
  2. Chris   September 7, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    Where’s my post?

    Reply
  3. Croquantes (@Croquantes)   August 31, 2014 at 6:50 am

    I’m gay, I don’t hate women but I’m continually dumbfounded by my fellow gays who say misogynistic things while sincerely believing them because they don’t know enough women to know better.

    I’m lucky (or cursed) because I’m highly empathetic, and I personally think that misogyny (or misandry) is the belief system of self-centered people who can’t imagine, and don’t want to imagine, how other people live.

    One of the hardest things for many people to do, is simply being open-minded and many gays, from a lifetime of oppression, find hard to accept people as they are when they’ve been rejected their whole lives.

    It’s not just women that many gays hate, many are so full of hatred from a lifetime of rejection and hatred levelled at them, that they hate EVERYONE in turn, even the men they have sex with.

    Seriously, think about it. When at least one out of three people think you’re disgusting because of the way you were born, you’re going to internalize a lot of that.

    Reply
  4. bob   August 29, 2014 at 10:39 pm

    as a man who love straight macho men, I have got to add my two cents. yes….I do hate some women because they are very controlling over straight men. They use their vagina to control these poor dumb men who are addicted to sex. Gay men are smarter than straight men and cannot be manipulated by women. Women should stop using what is between their legs to control men and stop holding these poor fools hostage. straight women are also very jealous creatures. Many straight men that I have met are very unhappy with women and they also die very young and unhappy. They fool around with me because I do not try to control them and give them exactly what they want. I guess women just want to kill all men if they cannot control them. nuff said.

    Reply
  5. Amber   August 21, 2014 at 7:52 pm

    I have never met a gay man who HATED women. Just the opposite…every gay man I have encountered is very loving towards women and easy to be around. I have even had a gay man stand up for me to a rude straight man more than once. On the other hand, I’ve met plenty of straight men who are sexually attracted to women but openly express very negative views about women. I came here because my mom is a hardcore christian and she went through a period in my childhood where she would bash gays (referring to them and anyone she was angry at as f***.) She would also say gay men hated women and tell the family how she had a “gay coworker” who was rude and supposedly hated women and referred to them as breeders. Luckily I never took her seriously…Law of attraction is real. If you have negative views of a certain group of people negative people will be attracted into your life. I suppose that means I should work on my views of straight men…

    Reply
    • aquaseanotes   October 20, 2016 at 5:08 pm

      that’s funny because i never disliked gay men until i saw the way they treated me. it took me many years to realize that gay men do not like women. so no, i did not “attract the thing i hated” into my life, rather, gay men saw me as an easy target to use for their purposes and i learned to avoid them. now my life is free of gay men because i choose for it to be, because i do not want to be insulted or criticized and mocked anymore by nasty, mean, insecure gay men

      Reply
  6. Anonymous   August 5, 2014 at 1:36 am

    Yeah definitely. I think that gay men both love and hate women. They idolize their lifestyle and behavior but envy them to the core solely because of the power they have over heterosexual men. Since gay men are attracted to masculinity they often are geared towards men who are mostly straight. Therefore, they see women as competition in a game they couldn’t possibly win and it doesn’t help the case that they are a sexual minority. I feel that because of this they tend to treat women poorly, I’ve actually noticed that some gays will avoid women altogether out of sheer envy and others will befriend them and try to interfere with their relationships since women like men who take an interest in other trivial aspects of their life, whereas straight men let’s face it are mostly concerned with sex. On top of that they tend to act much more feminine and cause more drama than any mean girl I know.

    It’s definitely misogyny built on envy as it all comes down to human nature and the basic need to be acknowledged and loved.

    Reply
  7. karen_o   July 28, 2014 at 1:38 am

    Yes, I believe that many gay men are misogynists, whether consciously or not. I think the root of homosexuality & gay identity in some men is misogyny, as well a sexism. Of course not all gay men hate/fear/mistrust women or see them as inferiors, but a fair amount do even if not aware that their attitudes, actions & speech belies this misogyny. This misogyny is embedded into all different forms of gay culture, from the most stereotypical where they mimic so-called female behaviors but really act shallow, shrew-like, and irrational (essentially equating women with such negative traits), to the more anti-queen gay cultures where anything “feminine” is rejected as weak & inferior. Even when gay men purport to “love” women, it’s an objectification as bad as that done by straight men. Women are turned into objects to dress, to mimic, to mock, even if not to bed. They’re “celebrated” as vessels to carry human life, but not respected as intellectual & creative equals. They are degraded from status of whole human being into something lesser than the man.
    I actually see very few gay men seeking & establishing relationships with women outside of their family members. Why would they? Women are mainly valued for appearance & sex, and if not valued for that, then the misogyny needs no veil.

    Reply
    • Ray   August 20, 2014 at 2:46 am

      Wow, the ignorance is strong on this blog.

      Reply
    • aquaseanotes   October 20, 2016 at 5:15 pm

      i agree. whenever i have met gay men i have noticed how little interest they take in even pretending to express interest in greeting me in a friendly way, etc. it’s like i am not even a human being. it has happened to me again and again, gay men will do everything short of saying “oh you’re a woman, I won’t waste any time on you” to me when they meet me for the first time. this used to happen to me when i went with a gay friend of mine to a gay club, and has also happened when i was with straight friends and met their gay acquaintance out at a bar. gay men will barely waste 1 second looking or talking to a woman. their eyes and attention are ALWAYS on other men. it’s like women aren’t human beings so why bother acknowledging their presence or being nice to them. because of this I now dread being around or having to meet or talk to gay men, because of how dismissive and bored they act towards any woman who even tries to make small chat with them in a social situation. even a married straight man is more polite to a strange woman he just met, even if he doesn’t find her attractive. gay men are the most dismissive towards women showing outward disgust and boredom at even having to talk to a woman for longer than a few minutes

      Reply
  8. aaron alternativa   June 27, 2014 at 5:34 pm

    So everyone hates women…

    I take offense with this article, I’m a socially akward, insecure, somehow unhappy gay guy and I have two str8 female BFFs, I have never touched them, insulted them, make them feel bad in any way, instead I’m always there for them, trying to help them to see their unhealthy dating patterns and they’ve helped me being comfortable with my sexuality, I could even say I would be in the closet if it weren’t for them, I have never projected my frustrations over them or any other woman.

    I think you’re just attracting bad people no matter their gender or sexuality…This is such a mean article, you should avoid the gay bars and clubs and try to meet different kinds of gay people other than crossdressers.

    Reply
  9. Alwyn Chan   June 25, 2014 at 5:20 am

    I have been a bff with a gay man… (I am a woman) we broke up last year.. cos i could no longer stand his verbal abuse.. also when it got to physical abuse.. I struck back… he cried…. and asked me how I could be so nasty… but hey I wasn’t the one laying hands on him first… I am utterly convinced now that for the most part this is true…. but I dunno that ALL gay men know they hate women.. i think for a lot of them it is subconscious…. anyway.. my ex gay bff hated me cos I was more successful than him.. and I was always conscious of moving ahead in life and not lagging behind… he did not like that at all.. or any talk of moving ahead.. he has low self-esteem so he feels better when he makes other ppls feel bad…. well… I am done with all of that… DONE…

    Reply
  10. tomilla   June 13, 2014 at 8:12 pm

    I have suspected long ago that a lot of men are secretly gay…

    Reply
  11. KA   May 17, 2014 at 11:47 pm

    Eeesh. I’d be lying if I said I’d never experienced gay male hate. I have and do experience it. I used to have a gay male supervisor who tried to act straight in the conservative business culture. I think to some extent his behavior translated to chauvinism towards me. He would light up in conversations with men, do the old boys club thing, but with women he was cold and indifferent, as if he couldn’t wait until the conversation was over. I can’t stand gay men like him. Just like straight men, but worse.

    I work with a gay man now who’s slightly effeminate. I don’t like when I catch him watching me in a creepy way, analyzing my outfit and shoes like he needs to fu-king approve. He’s worse than another woman and throws me under the bus whenever possible.

    With both these types of gay men, I have no idea what I’m dealing with, so I ignore them.

    I know only one gay couple who’s life is broad enough where they socialize with straight friends, entertaining as such. Regardless of what is appropriate for gay men, I’m not all that inclined to be their allies when they don’t care about being supportive to straight women

    Reply
    • aquaseanotes   October 20, 2016 at 5:18 pm

      yes you said it, “cold and dismissive, like he can’t wait until the conversation is over” basically a gay man can barely tolerate listening, talking to, or even looking at a woman for longer than 2 minutes. they don’t care how this makes women feel, how rude it is, or how cruel it is to a woman. they literally do not give a damn about women, or our feelings or emotions. gay men don’t want women to be part of society. and ti shows

      Reply
  12. KA   May 17, 2014 at 11:41 pm

    test

    Reply
  13. moriori   May 9, 2014 at 12:17 pm

    mall should be male , sorry about that

    Reply
  14. moriori   May 9, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    i do not believe that all homosexuals or all mall hetrosexuals hate females , there may be some but no way is it all .when asked by one anti female gay about woman I reminded him that he to had had to make use of female genitals in his life . he looked at me as if to say what but I simply reminded him that he would never have been born were it not for his beloved Mother , enough said .

    Reply

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